In this episode of The Learning Network's Community & Family Studies Podcast I am joined by Jess George-Loulach to chat about some of the misconceptions surrounding CAFS, especially the idea that it is a subject just for girls!

CAFS has so many real world lessons embedded within the course & can set students up for personal & professional success, no matter their gender.

If you want to let potential students know what CAFS is all about, check out my free "Tools to Promote CAFS" download below!


Show Notes 


Join me and my expert guest panel for a day to CHANGE the way you mark & teach Community & Family Studies. 



Looking for CAFS resources to help you & your CAFS crew thrive this term? Check out my Groups in Context resource booklets & other CAFS resources below!


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The Learning Network

Since 2004 I have been teaching PDHPE and Community & Family Studies. I love learning. It lights me up. I am so passionate about supporting you to be the best educator you can be.

My Purpose
To grow a lively and connected community, where Community & Family Studies teachers can network, learn and share with each other.

My Mission
To build on the knowledge, understanding and skills of Community & Family Studies teachers to set their students up for success with confidence.



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Show Transcription


Podcast Intro - Kelly:

Hey, I'm Kelly Bell. Welcome to The Learning Network Podcast. I guide Community and Family Studies teachers, newbies and experienced, through best practice to improve knowledge, increase empowerment and alleviate stress, to help you and your students to make meaningful connections across the course. I will share strategic and purposeful applications from my 16 years experience in the classroom that I have adopted to increase student motivation, enjoyment, engagement and results. Together, we will grow and transform your CAFS crew to the next level without impacting your sleep and wellbeing process. To join my free how to improve writing and fast track results webinar, head to So tune in, get inspired and let's connect, learn and grow together. 

 Episode intro - Kelly:

Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of The Learning Network Podcast. Today I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined by beautiful CAFS teacher,Jess George-Loulach is an absolutely beautiful teacher. She's a hard worker. She's very passionate about our course. She's actually one of our Kaskel active members, although this year has worked very, very different for her. So can't wait for you to learn so much from her, really about promoting cleaning Family Studies at your school. But Jess is going to unpack some of those big secrets about how she's promoted our beautiful course across her new school. So huge welcome to Jess.

Jess - Hi, how are you?

 Kelly - Good. Thank you. Do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners, just a little bit about yourself your background and where you're currently working.

Jess - Alright, so I'm a PDHPE teacher. So I've been teaching PDH for about 12 years, or together. But I did do some work in some primary schools over the years because back in the day pre COVID was really hard to find a job. So primary school it was so I did start my career in the primary school area teaching PDH, of course, worked my way up into a few independent schools. And now I'm in the Catholic system. So I got to move around a lot just to see how other schools worked as well as department schools. And I'm currently at an all boys school in Sydney's west as a sports coordinator. And also PD H PE teacher. So I've been there for about a term and a half and absolutely loving it so far.

Kelly - That's so good. Yes. And I think you know, before we pressed record, we were talking about how different it is to teach, or boys to co ed to all girls. So I've worked, you know, at all girls for 14 years Catholic school, very close to the all boys school that you're working at. And I think when I moved into Christ and then worked in a co ed school, so so different, so different, and I love those dynamics, but I've never worked in an all boys school, never done prep or anything like that. So I can't wait for you to kind of unpack what it's like in a CAFS space kind of in that PE classroom as well. So what's your current load? at your school? What do you teach?

Jess - Um, so at the moment, I have year 11 PDHPE, I have a year nine past class, which is physical activity, sports science. And then I have a seven, year eight, year nine any Tempe age class. And on top of that, I do have a sports coordinator, which I carry on, obviously, our fun Thursdays, and obviously with other sports around the school. So that's what I'm currently doing.

Kelly - Yeah nice and will you take your you elevens into towards next year?

Jess - Yeah, hopefully that's the plan. That's what my leader of learner has said. So we're hopefully take them into each other, which is good, something different. I haven't taught you 11 PDH in a few years. So it's been a little bit different for me. It was painted in PDH. So it is nice to do something different sometimes.

Kelly - Yeah, that's cool. And you've obviously taught CAFS for a really long time very experienced in that. So stepping into a new school, new system. All boys, I know that we've had lots of little conversations over the year about how that's been different. But we're gonna unpack kind of how you went through the process of bringing your communion Family Studies passion into this school. So did you mention this to your leadership team when you applied for the job? What was the kind of the background to that?

Jess - I think with my application, I first started like I was telling you before was a little bit reluctant because the first thing I was like, oh, no, there's no CAFS. The first thing I actually did was gone to the school website and see if CAFS was offered and unfortunately it wasn't offered. And my previous head of department kept pushing me and she actually sent it to me 1000 times she's like, No, this is for you. Definitely for you. It's really close to home. It's something that you should do. And I kept saying to her, no, there's no CAFS. So when I actually had an interview, I made it known on my resume and my cover letter that CAFS is life if we can say that. And throughout my interview, I kept relating back to CAFS wellbeing jars, you know some of those little things I did and how I would teach CAFS if CAFS was there and it was a really big highlight of my entire interview. And the good thing about it was my leader of learner was also in that interview, and he was a previous CAFS teacher to and he's also new to the school as well. He's been there for about a year and his face just lit up and he's like, yes, CAFS, and then we had some he had a look at their resume and a bit like of my CAFS history. And what I've done in CAFS, and if I've written anything, or if I've done anything else, and he just had the world's biggest smile on his face, so it kind of won over where I didn't have to sell it too much because the resume just have cuffs all over it with a little bit of pee on the bottom. And he was really happy because that's something that he wanted to bring into the school when he as he came in, and he came in from a coed school as well, where CAFS was a very big subject in his school. So I think for him having someone else that had the same passion for CAFS, made his life a little bit easier. Ah, so actually be like, You know what, maybe this is something we really need to do. Because everything about in my interview and even in my teachings and if we were talking in a faculty I'm like well in CAFS to do this. I used to do that. And I think I've gotten to the point where like, I think we'd get it. She likes CAFS.

Kelly - Yeah. And I think, you know, we do say CAFS is life. But it's because it does relate to everything. Every facet of our life is discussed when we actually teach our kids. And when our kids are immersed in our course, it's very different to any of the other courses. And you'll notice now, right, you know regrouping with PE, again, it's very black and white, there's no like, there's not much discussion, you know, around, you know, the energy systems. And this is how it works like it's either right or wrong. But you can even family studies, it is about, you know, how that links to that and just that, that whole kind of connection is relationship between all of our concepts. So, yeah, it's nice, how it kind of just slots in there. So let's, let's talk about how you have. So you introduced it in your like your interview last year? How did you then see that with your, your PHP coordinator, and then the the leadership team, the principal, how did you kind of introduce that that you wanted to offer this for next year?

Jess - Okay, so like I said, before my leader of learning he's extremely passionate about CAFS, which made my job easier, so to speak. The boys actually did a Moresby test, which is a test that pretty much they enter a bunch of questions and at the end of the test, it gives them a list of subjects that they should be selecting in year 11 and 12. And funnily enough, more than half of the boys, CAFS came up and I don't know how this okay, this just like fell into line for me. And it was to our advantage. And I remember him coming to me my later blender. He's like, Hi, Jessica. So I'm like What is like CAFS came up on this Moresby test. And about 35 students after this. And he showed me I was like, wow, this is amazing. Why isn't the subjects being subject being taught here? He's like, I keep asking myself the same question. He goes, but we'll get there. And then I thought to myself, you know, we have a very supportive principal is one of the best principals if not the best principal I've ever worked under. And that's only from a terminal half a fantastic deputy principal as well, who want the best for these kids. You know, they want new and improved ways of learning. They want different subjects. They want to build our school profile, because we want our community to come to our school and be like, You know what, this is the school for our like for our kids, and that I wants people to look somewhere else. They want us to be the main focus point of the area. And so the careers coordinator actually approached me and she's fantastic as well. And she's like a lot of the boys they marched the tests and I heard you were a CAFS stager. I'm like, Yes. I am a CAFS stager. And then I kind of like reflected back to about 10 weeks before that, where it was like a mourning ceremony in my house where I packed away my CAFS books. And I started getting teary eyed like I'm never going to see this subject ever again.

So when they said CAFS has been coming up in the Moresby test, I kind of started throwing on in CAFS, we can do this. We can do that with the boys. We can show them we can target from like, you know, we can promote this from a different angle where it's not a girly subject. It's definitely there for the boys, because I've had boys in my previous schools. And they've achieved band fives and some band sixes as well. So it is achievable for our boys. And it's a little less stressful than it is to be in a PDH classroom. Right. And so after that, he kind of said to me, he's like, Well, I have a meeting today with the principal. And I looked at him, I smiled. I'm like CAFS, he's like, Don't worry, I already know this. And I said to him, I said, Look, can you tell him if he doesn't get Kufstein that I'm gonna resign? And he looked at me, I'm like, Yeah, I'm being serious. Use that as leverage. Thankfully, it didn't have to use it as leverage, because then I probably would be out of a job, right? He was there for about 30 seconds, he came back and had this big smile. He's like, it's in asset office. And he's like, the next part is to sell. And I was like, awesome, fantastic. And that's when I contacted you Kel. I'm like, I need your help. So it was good, because it wasn't just there was nobody in that leadership team that ever said, no, they will always very supportive and something I haven't seen a lot in some schools that I have worked in, everybody actually pulled together for the betterment of the kids. And at the end of the day, we want the boys to have the best learning experience. And by enabling the ensuring that we can do that for the boys, we need to provide a variety of subjects. It's just like the Taz departed the creative arts diploma, we're able to bring in drama for your living tour for next year. So it's just allowing those boys to think differently in different subjects and really, you know, shine in a different way.

Kelly - I seriously have like, goosebumps when you when you talk about that. It was you know, it's even like we've got these and I think, you know, we know some of the statistics around everyone can look at this statistic. Based on the NASA website from the last 1020 years, that the that males in our state, there's, you know, there's about 3% or 300. Males set the HSC at the end of the in October, November every year. And there's been a few like fluctuations up to 400, up to 500, back down to 300. It's kind of set at that 300 mark for a really long time. And I think why not like Why aren't more males, you know, who, you know, obviously born a male, you know, recognised as a male? Why aren't they actually choosing this course. And I remember my cousin, who is instance his name Alexander's his official name, but we call it an NS long story, but he he's taking your liberty who's doing really well, like top five ended up dropping, it's like, there's too many girls in the class. And like, it's white, like, why are you dropping if you're doing doing so? Well? Why what why fill that need? And I think there is that, that perception that our course is for females, and that's you know why we have so many females actually teaching the course and not enough miles. And when I can we have about four or five males in the CAFS collectively on my CAFS membership, which is great, which is so you know, so good to see so many males in there, but it's a real shame. And I think, you know, I can't wait for you know, us to press, you know, press in on this podcast episode, because I know it's gonna spark lots of conversations across the state around increasing those numbers for males, because it was never designed for females. It was never written like that.

Jess - My leader of learning, sorry to butt in there Kell, but that was probably the first time that I've actually heard that a male in a school that I've worked at is teaching CAFS, and that for me, like that inspired me to push it one step further. And even if he like, because we had a conversation about who will take the class, he goes, it's not negotiable, like you're taking that we, you know, it's all yours, like, we can't take that smile off your face, he goes, but it's fantastic to see because like, if we can grow it, then the boys can see that if you know me as a male I'm teaching then they can see that it's not just a girl subject, we I think we really need to remove that stigma away from the subject. It's a fantastic subject, and our kids are picking it up, kids want it. And I think we just need to be offering and giving that opportunity. And I think it will go down to the way that we sell and the way that we are as teachers and I have firmly believe a lot more male teachers can get on board and start teaching the content, as we as females go in and teach PDHPE at the same time.

Kelly - And I think I think I reckon it stems from maybe that the home economics kind of pathway. You know, like back in my parents day mum was born in 1957. So back in those kind of early 50s 60s 70s, home economics was sewing and cooking, cleaning, like housewife kind of stuff. And then it moved and shifted in the 80s to home economics and then life management. And there was that kind of that tipping point, I think in life management that people kind of went well, hang on, it's not about cooking and cleaning that's very much changed that traditional role a woman at home, doing those things, if I had to be that woman doing those things, you know, to then come into community Family Studies, because it is all encompassing, it doesn't matter who you are, what you're doing, where you're from, our course hits so many groups around Australia around you know, our course is based around in Australia. But of course, you know, overseas, it should, there should be overseas versions of these. And I kind of talk to people about it being like sociology or psychology kind of a bit of a mixture. And when I look at some other states and what they're doing with their courses there, you can say that, that some of our concepts are in their sociology courses, or their psychology courses in sciences. So it's interesting to see how other states have kind of taken our course. But very unique. You know, we both love it a lot. But I think you know, having males and that male perspective is something that's really, really exciting to have. So let's talk now about the actual practicalities of once they said that that green light was like go we're going to we're going to offer it at subject selection. What did you have to do in the background to actually prepare for that?

Jess - Okay, so my first point of contact was actually you. But I was like, Hey, sorry, that which was gonna say you did some work for us and backgrounds. You were just fantastic and like, those posters that you redesigned the colour change, so we were able to print a laminate and I literally took down posters in rooms and posted them up and even at my desk, I have a CAFS is life just to make sure that everyone is on the same, same boat as I am. And everyone who walked past him like what is this new girl doing? Apart from that we had to start the promotion. And my letter Glenna was really adamant to ensure that we promoted and we needed to go like all guns blazing and the first thing we did was we went out on to YouTube. We actually found a CAFS promotional video that you had created. Kale. So we had a look at it. And we've actually posted on all Google Classrooms just to begin with. We also have conversations with kids. So I spent about 25 minutes talking about CAFS stage six in about five minutes or phpa during one of my YouTube classes, and I just showed the boys and I wasn't just being watched wasn't really trying to show them that CAFS isn't just about carrying a baby what they might do it the girls school down the road or you know those little things or those little, you know what the stereotypes that they had around CAFS, because a lot of them were asking questions about CAFS, because not only did it come up in their Moresby test, but they have cousins or other schools who are actually doing CAFS, and so they've heard the subject. So apart from the promotion more the posters, we did have an information and night as well. So we had to prepare something for a booklet as well as we had a stand.

When I came back to the cupboard that I had a morning ceremony for, I pulled that on my things like literally the next day, my whole desk had CAFS things back on it with the CAFS his life stickers from the learn learning network and all those little things. It just it was a whole different vibe. I was like that like that spark lit back up. And I pulled out all the CAFS books and resources and anything that I did have that could appeal to the boys. And then we just have conversation after conversation about CAFS. So parents were there, which I loved seeing because I think that's really important that the parents were part of the process. And a lot of them knew a little bit about CAFS because their son had gone home, because I had literally spoken about CAFS for 45 minutes, the same week for every lesson. And they just like look through the textbook look. And they asked questions. And I just asked, what direction could we go in? And that was pretty much your selling point. And there were some reluctant parents, because they may have heard, you know, their niece is studying in cuffs, why is my son going to do it. And I had a few kids come back and forth to me and I just pretty much explained to them. I showed them like I just sorted some things gently like social workers, police officers, teachers, nurses, just to name a few occupations. If you are looking at going into these directions, this is something that you need. This is something that will be good background. And then I started to actually make sense to the boys that we can show them a textbook, we can show them a resource, we can show them a PowerPoint. But if we're not demonstrating, you know, or we're not having the end in mind, which is something that you told me once and you said you said you know what's the big picture.

So we need to think with the end in mind. What's your end goal? And what are you going to do to get there? And a lot of the boys kind of like that had a light bulb moment and like, oh, you know what, yeah, this is the one for me. And it was good that we had that night and that we had that chat and then the conversations continued afterwards because it didn't although we had the green light the boys still had to select it. And that's when you know, that's when it actually you know, it had to make the lines. If it didn't make it's great to have yay, let's put it on there but we actually had to make the line and in between my letter of learning and myself. We literally just dumped it out to the boys everyday. CAFS CAFS and I kept walking around and had dropped maps pick ups. And that was my motto and my life like I kept saying pick advanced CAFS and they're like what's advanced CAFS and like? It's advanced CAFS, it's the advanced class, you know, and it's not going to be on the math land just drop maps and pick CAFS. Because it's something that I used to say all the time I would walk in the corridor walk past the curriculum coordinator, drop maps pick, dramas pick CAFS, and I sent it to the cruise coordinator. She had a laugh. So look, we were there. So that's where we were after promotion.

Kelly - Yeah. And you know, I can see your energy and I could only imagine you walking around maybe like a you know, some big sign on the front of you. But you have to do that you have to sell the course and I think I want to kind of unpack a few things if our listeners haven't been kind of, you know, listening to well, but one thing that you've done really well and you would have done this on at your previous schools is promote within so promoted from the students I actually had ramped it up in the nine and 10 talk about a lot but said it early in your seventh and eighth talk about it and what I what I kind of did was have my seniors would come in while my juniors played have those conversations. I would say the worker in the room, you'd have textbooks out maybe not too many because I didn't never really relied on my own textbook to use and I'm a co author all but you know, you kind of you know, they see it they see posters and class workin those beautiful rich conversations you would have, and even talking to the kids in new seven, we talk about this in curse when we learn, you know, the five dimensions of health. These are actually the same thing in community family size, but we call them well being, it's the same stuff, the same stuff that we're teaching. And so seeing those conversations early with the juniors, obviously teaching the kids the skills, you know, we know how important that is. But then that content, kind of filtering it out, read ramping it up in United term. And like I said, all guns blazing new 10 Having those really rich conversations, you're obviously really lucky, you had united pass this year, and I can't wait to see what next year and then the year after will look like fit, you know, for you for that because I think that's where those really rich connections, I made the kids. And then that ends up being, you know, those courses that we have, and I think that's part of a bit of a secret, building the kids having those connections, I taught paths for years as well.

And I you know, you start those conversations early with the kids, they love you, they love you know, the way you work, the way you operate, what happens you then build those courses in your senior years. And we were really lucky, literally. And you know, it's very small all girls school in black town, we had five classes, no four classes, by the time I left in 2017. And that was like most of the cohort that was 90% of the cohort who had community family studies as one of the courses. So now that was at the other end, you know, I can't wait for you know, for you just to see what it's going to look like in the next you know, four or five years because I think it is not just about the content. It's about those relationships and that trust you know, you've obviously built trust already at your school. One thing you also mentioned was having that conversation with the parents and getting them on board and making them kind of aware because they don't know what it is like CAFS they hear the word CAFS or what is it? Community Family Studies? Well, what's that about? Well, that's just carrying a baby. And I think I saw something on social media say about that. I'm like, No, it's not about the babies. Babies where the hell these babies thing come from? No, get the babies into back into ECE. I don't know why they've come into CAFS. I'm talking about the simulated babies if you have no idea what I'm talking about for our listeners. For some reason, people in New South Wales teachers think that we have to have a simulated baby in our cup in our class. I really think it takes away from the learning. But again, that's I could do a whole episode about why you should need to simulate babies in CAFS, but Alright, so what we're up to we're actually getting across the line. So what was the next step? So that you had the subject selection? I know those rich conversations you only have the parents email you or call you up about it? Or was it kind of like the deals done on the night?

Jess - Yeah, pretty much it was the deal was done on the night. So but we did see quite a lot. And I really liked this the first time that I've seen this many parents actually actually actively involved in that actually made me like it actually cemented, like, for me, like, all right in the right place. Like we want parent involvement, because it's really important for them to have a say. So I'm after the night. The next step was obviously the boys would select so the selection would mean getting on the lines. And I don't know what the date was. But I was having one of those days. I think I was just a bit stressed about Thursday sport. And I was just sitting in the classroom and teaching him my later on. And I hate knows like he just knows how to make me smile. He literally walked past my room and he's saying maybe you had this church group on his face. You guys 13 I said, sorry. He's like 13 Kids have said yes to CAFS. So far I was like, what? 13 kids I didn't lose in the classroom. And the boys are looking at me like what's wrong with this reader? I'm like, nothing boys just CAFS. I'm pretty sure that it's gonna run now. And all we needed to do was passed the Tim. So as long as we had 10 or more they were able to play so on to the light. And so now we are officially on the lines. So that is like a whim. The next step would be to ensure that God willing, like the lines done in a way where the boys who wanted to pick CAFS are able to do so.

Kelly - Yeah, and doesn't match with it other courses.

Jess - That's correct, and like just having a chat with the boys. They genuinely like it was the first peak. And it wasn't like the second people the third peak, it was actually one of their first peaks, and like the way that they were talking about and I'm like no Miss, I really, really want to do this. Like you don't understand how much I really want to do this. And that just made me happy in the fact that it actually made the lines. That's an achievement, especially within, you know, an all boys school where, you know, in some cases and in some schools and maybe with a team who's not as supportive as what we have at my school, they might say, oh, let's just throw it out the window like let's not even make the line 13 may be a small number, but the fact that they're allowing that to be on the line. It just shows a very big future for not just the school but for CAFS within The context of a boy's classroom

Kelly - Yeah. And I think like I'm so I'm such a nerd, you know that I'm a nerd. Yes. And I think everyone else realises this now, but I literally have goosebumps thinking about, you guys could potentially create something big. I know this is like a bit, you know, in new set, like in school, it's not like you're not going to change the world, but to have that gender shift that gender stereotype completely broken down at an all boys school, you know, and it's your school is not like a you know, it's a fairly masculine school as well. I don't like to gender stereotype, but it is it has that rich culture of working class, Western Sydney, big cultural kind of community, bit of a Lebanese community, you know, obviously grown over the years, only knows because my husband grew up in the area and merrily know that change that it's hard. And I think that's such a testament to you, but also you, you are so blessed to have that those leaders on on your on your site and on your team because, like you said, for some reason, they bleed as they it's that dollar sign, I think but I'm like, hang on, it's not your money. Like it's not. It's the Catholic system. It's public money. It's the independent system. We need to be supporting our students. We should be you know, voting with what our students are telling us.

So the boys voted for that the boy said, We want CAFS is our number one pick that should be on that line. And I think there's so many schools who say no to courses are eight not enough. If you have eight amazing dancers in the one dance class, you should be running that course one, you need to work out a way be creative with your you know, staffing, I get it I'm you know, I've been a leader before been relieving head teacher, you know, I get how leadership works. It's all based on money. You know how many teachers or how many students you have is based on your, you know, the figure that you get to work within your school, your budget, however, you can be really creative with what you do. So I think you're you're very lucky to have that leadership team who are willing to stand behind you and stand behind you strong to go. Yep, we think it's important. And I think I think it's also a testament to what's happening in our community in terms of jobs as well. And that shift, you know, like you said, nursing, policing, psychology, sociology, teaching, you know, we could, you know, I was even thinking, politics, health promotion, all these courses, you know, at university and obviously, future work is it's changing our, you know, our society is changing. And I love that I think that's really exciting. So when what's the next step? Like? How do you now promote it? And then when's the final? When's the final say?

Jess - Well, Google Classroom is our big platform. So I just have to remind them again on day one that like, and to make sure I do post another and my goal is like, even within the classrooms that we're teaching, just to have a few more sort of visual representations like I've placed a few CAFS posters in specific areas. So where the light switches there's a CAFS poster. You know where the boys will turn there's a CAFS poster where you least expected there is a CAFS poster. On the doors, yeah, well, I'm about to put one on the sports notice board because encouraging them to go there on Thursday to make sure they know what room they're going to. So we're going to turn that sports board into more than just like everywhere the boys would look, you know, just before they walk into the bathroom. Oh, there's a CAFS poster, you know, and it will be hard for them to tear it down to but it's gonna be laminated and colourful, you know, just those visual representations. And so having those conversations because, look, although sometimes boys, or even like any student, they, they have an idea in their head. But you know, there could be some sort of confusion, some more clarity that needs to be had, you know, speak to them, you know, let them you know, I said to them come and have a look at some of the content. I'll show you some of my PowerPoints. And, you know, like you said, you don't really use a textbook. I mean, I have my textbook there. I don't really look at it. Unless it's, you know, it's just nice to sit on the desk because it says CAFS. And I think that just to show them just have a look inside just so they can see the content, what are some of the, you know, Syllabus points that they may, you know, be reaching and just try and, you know, maybe encourage them to, you know, pick wisely. You know, pick they know, and even just to also let them know that we've CAFS and I know especially with like individuals and work as an example, it does cross over to business studies.

So it is a connection to other subject areas that will allow them to better develop their knowledge and understanding especially with that extended response. Because you know, if me being the teacher, we will be doing individuals that work because that's most relevant, and the most, you know, subject that we can adapt to our kids and what they know best and at the school there is a high number of business logistics. isn't so why not use the resources that we have available and cross over between teachers. And I think if we are able to build that, and hopefully by the end of this term, I'll be like, You know what, I'm preparing my Google Classroom now for next year. Locario, you have it on draft, nobody's gonna know that. I ready. I'm like posting everything. I'm ready to go. Yes. But I think we just need to make sure that you know, the boys know that it's not just stay. It's not just the hype. This is like the real deal. We really want them to succeed, and they can succeed with the right making those right choices. But at the end of the day, the kids matter the most, suddenly, if it doesn't end up going through, that's okay, because we'll try again. But at least I know that there is that conversation that's been happening. And there is a push and support from leadership, working all the way down to the staff. And that, for me, is one of the biggest things and a big accomplishment as a school community more than anything else. But I'm pretty sure go through that.

Kelly - Look, I can't wrap that up any better. I think you know, you you guys have done the hard work, you've done the hard work. To bring this together. I've really loved hearing the journey. I can't wait to kind of maybe come on and do like a quick follow up podcast, very quick chat, and you can let our listeners know what actually eventuated in like a realism perspective, what's your actual goal? How many kids?

Jess - Well, they did say a number of 13 have picked, I would be happy with anywhere between 10 to 15. Kids. My later have learned agitates me luck. If there is a lot, you never know, there might be two classes. And that's amazing in itself as he's fantastic. He's done a lot of the groundwork as well. And I do have to give credit to him, because he's been fantastic. But if we can at least just get a class running. And I know that we need a minimum of 10. But I know something inside of me tells me even if it's an eight or a nine, they will still run the the the class. Because that's just the type of school he is they do want to provide that opportunity. And there is that support. And there is that growth, as well as the teachers at the school. But yeah, anywhere, any, any numbers. Look, if I had one kid, I'll be happy. If I have to do offline, I'll do that to do anything.

Kelly - I think that's great that you've said that I know it does take extra time. But if there's some sort of flexibility in the timetable, to run it offline to run it, you know, you could run a video like you could have like a, you know, like we did during COVID sessions like that, if there's that tiny bit of flexibility, I think, you know, leaders should possibly look at that because we we we often, you know, talk the talk but don't actually walk the walk about giving kids choice about their vocation about their, their passions. And I think, you know, once we get them in there, once we put them into CAFS, they will absolutely love it. And those feet, you know, those numbers will build. But I think promoting within, obviously connecting with your kids is really crucial. And you're you know, you're lucky, you've been able to establish a really quick relationship. Obviously, sport is probably something that's added to that. But you know, you just you're you're just you know, so vibrant and such a ball of energy. So I think, you know, you attract, you know, lots of positive people to do anyway. So, I have one last question for you, before we wrap up, if that's okay, what advice would you give to your younger self? So if you're kind of reflecting on your life, would you give your younger self any sort of advice around what you could have done better or differently?

Jess - Um, I think what I would say to my younger self, and I thought about this a little bit, is to have a little bit more faith in myself. And even though others might say I'm not good enough, or I'm not just there yet, keep pushing. And I think I didn't really push until the last six months, and I think mainly locked down hope that a lot to really push and, you know, spread my wings and actually go for what I want. And, you know, you've heard a bit of my story. And this is like, this is me reaching for what I want, and what I think I know that I deserve to have. So I think it's just about having that faith in myself and just not letting anyone's words get to you, especially as a young teacher. Even though now I've been teaching for 12 years, I feel like I'm the middle aged teacher. Everyone still thinks I look 21 So that's okay. I'm 32 Calm down. I can't hear any more, speak louder, but like this, are you really 32 And again, I'm definitely 32. But I feel like a 60 year old and can't hear you. So please raise your voice. So it's just happening. It'd be more faith in myself. And I think having faith earlier within myself and my ability, you know, even as in general life, I think that, you know, I could have been pushing those barriers down earlier, but I'm grateful that it happened now than it did six years ago.

Kelly - Yeah. Awesome advice, Jess. Thank you. So match I can't wait to release this Alison's gonna love this conversation with you so a huge thank you thanks so much Jess thanks cool

Outro - Kelly:

Thanks for joining The Learning Network, I'd love to hear what connected with you most about today's episode. Take a screenshot and tag me on Instagram and Facebook, @thelearnnet. If you'd like to know more about my courses, MasterClasses, Coaching and Mentoring and Membership, you can DM me over on Facebook or Instagram or head to Don't forget to stay connected by subscribing to Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and if you love today's episode, I would be so honoured if you could please leave me a review. See you again next week. Let's continue to connect, grow and learn together to make a huge impact on the students we teach. 

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traditional custodians on whose land I walk, work & live.
This land was and always will be the land of the First Nations People.